I'm negotiating with a company in another country to do some web
development. There is a language barrier. His proposal includes the
following language:

"you hire a php developer from our side. We offer full time php-mysql
developer at [***] usd per month.

"We offer 200 hours of work per month per person. Hours are not
reportable nor forwardable if not used."

I know what he means that the hours are not "forwardable", but I do not
know what he means by the hours not being "reportable". Anybody?

Pondering the eternal question of "Hobnobs or Rich Tea?", mcp6453
finally proclaimed:

I'd guess that he means that they won't tell you how many hours they
have actually worked, but it could mean anything. Ask them for
clarification! Another thing you might want to think about is that if
language has become a barrier so early on in the project, why are you
even considering outsourcing to them?

--
Dylan Parry
http://webpageworkshop.co.uk -- FREE Web tutorials and references

Dylan Parry wrote:

I have asked for clarification, but the explanation was no better than
the original statement. Beyond that, the answer to your question is that
the project is already a year late and over budget to the extent that it
may not now ever get off the ground. It has the potential to be very
successful, but because of several people who have taken our money and
not delivered what they agreed to deliver, the project is in jeopardy.
Therefore, I'm looking for an affordable solution. Requests for
recommendations have gone unanswered in several newsgroups, including
this one.

Before anyone launches on me for being cheap, I have never asked anyone
to work for nothing. In fact, I don't even negotiate for lower prices
once I am given a quote. I take it or leave it. There are developers who
are good and charge a lot for what they do, and there are those who are
good and are able to charge less than market rate. (Those who are not
good obviously are of no interest. Unfortunately, everyone says they're
good.) At this point, we are unwilling to invest much more money in the
project. As a result, the project is probably doomed. Outsourcing is a
last attempt to try to salvage it.

The big disadvantage is that I am unable to develop the code myself.
While I know just enough HTML to be dangerous, and while I used to
develop non-web code in C, I have no experience with PHP or ASP. That
makes me totally dependent on others.

I'm an older guy, and while this comment doesn't apply to anyone in this
esteemed group, there are many developers who just do not have any work
ethic. They promise to deliver by a certain date, and the date comes and
goes with no delivery. Again, don't assume that this problem occurs
because we're bottom feeding. That is not the case. We asked for quotes,
paid as agreed (often in advance), and waited. The guy who developed our
animation and the guy who created our video sales presentation did what
they said they would do, within the time agreed, and for the price
quoted. Their work is excellent. Unfortunately, however, neither guy
does web development.

So, that's why I'm attempting to outsource. I agree with your
interpretation of "reportable". If that is a correct interpretation, I
wonder how anyone in business could expect to take someone's money and
not be "reportable". Thankfully I am not as stupid as I look. However,
if "reportable" means something else, I would like to understand what it
is. Heck, there's even a language barrier with my teenagers. I don't
have to go overseas to have a language problem!

mcp6453 wrote:
You can't communicate well enough to get the basic ground rules of the
contract sorted out.

How do you expect the site requirements and the resultant development
to be any more successful?

mcp6453 wrote:

I would interpret the language to mean "You pay for 200 labor-hours a
month, and if you only use 190; well, as far as those 10 hours go, don't
expect a refund, don't expect to use them next month, and don't expect
them to be accounted for somehow this month."

However, I have to second the comments of the others in this thread...
this bodes very poorly for the future.

Can you give us any kind of details on this project? I.e., scope,
budget, etc.? One thing I have learned in this industry is that there
are *always* options. If outsourcing seems like a bad idea to you, but
is only being considered as a last resort, then perhaps it's time to
come at the problem from a new angle, to avoid tossing good money after bad.

--
David Hennessy
http://maidix.com/

mcp6453 <mcp6453@earthlink.net> wrote:

I think it is time for you to take the language barrier to the next
step, namely "I'm sorry but the language barrier prevents our working
together". If you can't understand the contract negotiations, there's
not a chance in hell they'll understand your application specs
presuming you have any.

If you need to farm out some PHP work feel free to contact me, I may
or may not be able to help but at least I won't bullshit you about it.

There are others here in aww who know more about website
implementation that I do but I don't really know any of them well
enough yet to recommend from experience.

--
http://www.ren-prod-inc.com/hug_soft...action=contact

dingbat@codesmiths.com wrote:

Exactly. I remember one company that hired a bunch of
<insert_country> contractors to rework their documentation, the
software team spent more time trying to explain things that
native-english-speakers wouldn't need to have had explained than they
saved in cost, and the end product was illegible at best. If the guys
you will be interfacing with don't speak the same language you do just
move on to an alternative that has a chance of working.

--
http://www.ren-prod-inc.com/hug_soft...action=contact

David Hennessy wrote:
I may do so eventually, but that is beyond the scope of my query at this
point. The real problem at this point is the budget. We're trying to
decide whether we're throwing good money after bad.

dingbat@codesmiths.com wrote:
The only reason I am going through this exercise is the company was
highly recommended to me by a colleague who used them successfully to
create her web site. She was pleased with the quality, price, and
responsiveness.

I know outsourcing is a sore subject here, but I am having to deal with
it in my profession, as well. It is a fact of life. As the language
barrier is broken down with time, the problem will become even more
acute, assuming that outsourcing is a problem.

mcp6453 <mcp6453@earthlink.net> wrote:


PS - hey M, abbey road!!

What a day we all had inside the hallowed studio walls!

A great time was had by all. Thanks for making it happen.

Best Irish wishes.