Please don't think of this as a crosspost. I didn't get the answer I
expected in .....asp.general, so I've posted it in here.

Laphan <news@DoNotEmailMe.co.uk> wrote in message news:...
Hi Guys

I know this has probably been asked more times than Google indexes sites,
but I respect the feedback from the NG and want your honest opinions.

I've been given the task of doing a higher level of ecom/shopping cart
system than what I usually do and need to look to doing it via the tried and
tested ways rather than my combo of frames, asp and javascript routines that
have held me in good stead, but this one is a serious job.

It's going to be in the same vein as ebuyer and empire-direct on a slightly
smaller scale, but the whole thing has to be CMS from the start, as my past
projects have always been basically from scratch each time and I need to be
more professional and resourceful with my coding.

I had to use frames before to store the movement of the order in my
Javascript model, the downside to this was my inadequacy with Javascript
other than straightforward client-side (it always seems flaky to me if it is
used anything more than client-side) and the mandatory way of popping out
the https to an external window to show the padlock is also fraught with
disaster. Like I said before I want to go back to the tried and tested
methods rather than my own blazing cross-compatible nightmare.

So to this, I need to understand how you manage the order as it passes from
page to page. I've seen snippets that use Cookies, which I always thought
weren't a reliable option, due to the unnecessary security issues that
browsers now put in place, Sessions, which I've been told were developed by
witches who worship the devil, or DB tracked (somehow). What is the method
used by such as ebuyer and the ilk?

I want to do it all in ASP, as I do have experience in this and trying to
learn another language before this job is done is going to be fraught with
disaster. The DB will probably be SQL Server, although I do have a job
before it that I was going to use Access so as to initiate a guinea pig
stepping stone - eh?

So your feedback on the best footings to go by would be very much
appreciated.

Also do you ever use Visio to design the layout of things such as this, or
is this one of those fancy tools that nobody ever uses because pen and paper
rule every time?

Many thanks.

Laphan

"Laphan" <news@DoNotEmailMe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40269aed_3@127.0.0.1...
OK Starting from the top
www.Aspin.com there are a few carts there, not going to talk about any, as I
don't know the good ones from the bad ones...
www.Charon.co.uk and http://thechocolatestore.com/ultradev/ are both
Dreamweaver Extensions that are GOOD carts and will hopefully speed up the
development, if you use DW - I do STRONGLY reccomend using something like
that especially if you are not good with MS SQL as it does most of the
coding for you, I would also reccomend learning it all, as you will want to
customise / take it beyond the limits of the software.

Visio, I am currently involved in redoing a major website with probably a
thousand pages, as such I have started using Visio.. would I reccomend it?
dunno... I have in the past always used pen and paper...

www.GotoMedia.com is a site which is good for information on website project
management, Kelly Goto is quite famous as an authoritive figure on it all...

Other than that,

Avoid JavaScript and Frames where ever possible... .

CSS is GOOD and for e-commerce good use of CSS styled layout will be
considerably faster than using Tables (for loading)... Accesibility and all
that should be considered... I have never really gone into it before, but
recently I have had a few emails where people have either criticised or
praised a site which I have worked on, and it shows that there are more
people out there that have some basic problem with using Screens / Mice or
....

Flash is a great tool, but NOT for e-commerce...

Marketing - consider this from the outset, keywords, etc.. are all very
important Title tag is god however!

HTH's

Gerry

Dear Gerry

Many, many thanks for your prompt and useful feedback.

I must be honest, this is the 3rd newsgroup that I have posted this query to
and yours is the 1st proper answer I have received!

I will try and take on your comments, but one thing I did want to ask is
that in order for the basket to 'travel' is it the case that the
professional methods are either Session or Database work?

I want the site to keep orders and account details on-line, so is the common
method to store a session id in the DB and then record the order lines as
they go along?

Rgds

Laphan


Gerry White - use my name at dergal dot come for email <ukinfo@cj.com> wrote
in message news:zNxVb.17237$P32.9801@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...

"Laphan" <news@DoNotEmailMe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40269aed_3@127.0.0.1...
OK Starting from the top
www.Aspin.com there are a few carts there, not going to talk about any, as I
don't know the good ones from the bad ones...
www.Charon.co.uk and http://thechocolatestore.com/ultradev/ are both
Dreamweaver Extensions that are GOOD carts and will hopefully speed up the
development, if you use DW - I do STRONGLY reccomend using something like
that especially if you are not good with MS SQL as it does most of the
coding for you, I would also reccomend learning it all, as you will want to
customise / take it beyond the limits of the software.

Visio, I am currently involved in redoing a major website with probably a
thousand pages, as such I have started using Visio.. would I reccomend it?
dunno... I have in the past always used pen and paper...

www.GotoMedia.com is a site which is good for information on website project
management, Kelly Goto is quite famous as an authoritive figure on it all...

Other than that,

Avoid JavaScript and Frames where ever possible... .

CSS is GOOD and for e-commerce good use of CSS styled layout will be
considerably faster than using Tables (for loading)... Accesibility and all
that should be considered... I have never really gone into it before, but
recently I have had a few emails where people have either criticised or
praised a site which I have worked on, and it shows that there are more
people out there that have some basic problem with using Screens / Mice or
....

Flash is a great tool, but NOT for e-commerce...

Marketing - consider this from the outset, keywords, etc.. are all very
important Title tag is god however!

HTH's

Gerry

"Laphan" <news@DoNotEmailMe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4027d950_3@127.0.0.1...
Travel ?

Most of the sites I have worked on use Sessions

A couple DB and a SessionID, but that was floored in so many ways...

My methods mainly used

Session Variables, then when purchased a save to DB type routine...
& emailed out the CC information using an encryption script half written by
me, and half by www.ASPencrypt.com

If you want a copy of that script let me know ...

G

Don't know where the travel bit came from .... need a new thesaurus!!

I'm interested to know what flaws you found in using the DB & Session
method.

Do you know if large organisations such as Amazon, DELL, EBuyer, etc use
just the Session method?

I'm going to go the SQL Server route for the DB backbone, but I want to get
the foundations right for the way that the basket works.

Many thanks

Rgds

Laphan


Gerry White - use my name at dergal dot come for email <ukinfo@cj.com> wrote
in message news:qyTVb.5669$xc5.2525@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...

"Laphan" <news@DoNotEmailMe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4027d950_3@127.0.0.1...
Travel ?

Most of the sites I have worked on use Sessions

A couple DB and a SessionID, but that was floored in so many ways...

My methods mainly used

Session Variables, then when purchased a save to DB type routine...
& emailed out the CC information using an encryption script half written by
me, and half by www.ASPencrypt.com

If you want a copy of that script let me know ...

G

"Laphan" <news@DoNotEmailMe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40280db8$1_3@127.0.0.1...
BTW in many newsgroups, Top posting is the way to do it, in here everyone
bottom posts, its sort of a convention, as long as everyone does it the same
way it doesn't matter...

Using a DB creates a lot of dead records, not really a problem with SQL and
a purge script, but I would still use a session variable.

Amazon, Dell and e-buyer usually have custom scripts written for them, but I
would reckon something cookie / session variable esque for most of it...

If you have Dreamweaver then I would actively reccomend that software
solution I mentioned - Ultracart V2 or the CharonCart solutions, I have
tried a few others, many have been terrible, some have been great... (not
tried the latest CharonCart but I have tried the free and would be willing
to spend the extra given the right project)

I still have to hand code with each a little to get the best from each of
course...

the UC v2 does store the cart for up to 30 days, (cookie based)

Good choice with SQL, though Access will cope with 99.9% of sites and
traffic, SQL has a certain robustness, power that I think is superb...

Gerry

Gerry White - use my name at dergal dot come for email <ukinfo@cj.com> wrote
in message news:wDUVb.6178$xc5.676@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...

"Laphan" <news@DoNotEmailMe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40280db8$1_3@127.0.0.1...
BTW in many newsgroups, Top posting is the way to do it, in here everyone
bottom posts, its sort of a convention, as long as everyone does it the same
way it doesn't matter...

Using a DB creates a lot of dead records, not really a problem with SQL and
a purge script, but I would still use a session variable.

Amazon, Dell and e-buyer usually have custom scripts written for them, but I
would reckon something cookie / session variable esque for most of it...

If you have Dreamweaver then I would actively reccomend that software
solution I mentioned - Ultracart V2 or the CharonCart solutions, I have
tried a few others, many have been terrible, some have been great... (not
tried the latest CharonCart but I have tried the free and would be willing
to spend the extra given the right project)

I still have to hand code with each a little to get the best from each of
course...

the UC v2 does store the cart for up to 30 days, (cookie based)

Good choice with SQL, though Access will cope with 99.9% of sites and
traffic, SQL has a certain robustness, power that I think is superb...

Gerry


Thanks Gerry

Much appreciated.

Rgds

Laphan

Laphan wrote:

http://www.oscommerce.org

John