Ok, so we've had various opinions on the logo question. How about this
one.

I've written a CMS which I sell to my clients and host on my server.
What if one of them decides to start using another web company and ask
me for the data and CMS on disk for the new company to take over and
host for them?

I'm guessing the answer would be that they have a licence to use it
while it's hosted with you but this is probably restrictive practices or
something.

I had this come up when one of my clients was bought out. I was
extremely loathe to hand over my source code to a competitor. In fact,
I refused to do it and nothing came of it but I think I was probably
lucky to get away with that. I mean, what's to stop the competitor
taking my code and selling it on as their own? I would have very little
way of knowing.

Andy

--
Andy Jacobs
www.redcatmedia.net
Intelligent Websites For Intelligent Business People

"Andy Jacobs" <andy@redcatmedia.net> wrote in message
news:andy-463353.22481314102005@news.btinternet.com...
Surely you own the source code, as long as you are able to give them
their content in some usable form (if you see what I'm trying to get
at)? It would be a bit like them trying to claim access to say MS
source code - users only ever 'borrow' the software, the only part
one buys is the disc it comes on.

Interesting question. All these things should be tied down in a contract in
advance, of course. In this case I'd think it was reasonable to argue that
the CMS is part of the hosting service, and just as they don't own the
server that it all resides on, they don't have any rights to the software
beyond a license to use it to manage content. Once the service agreement is
terminated, those rights evaporate too. Any literature you have should
describe content management facilities (or is it cat massage?) as part of
the overall service, and don't use the word "sell"!

--
####################
## PH, London
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"Andy Jacobs" <andy@redcatmedia.net> wrote in message
news:andy-463353.22481314102005@news.btinternet.com...

"Philip Herlihy" <foof8501@herlihy.eu.veil.com> wrote in message
news:dipadp$406$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
I think this would lose in court regardless of the copyright issue over the
software, because it is depriving the client of the use of their data and
damaging them commercially.

There is a recent ofcom ruling against a hosting company which had a
contractual term allowing them to delete a customers files if the customer
did not pay the renewal fee (probably standard throughout the hosting
industry).
Ofcom said that was an unfair contractual term because it meant the customer
may lose data that was worth money. They did not indicate how long a host
should reasonably hold onto the data for.
I have had customers contact me over a year afyer expiry saying "where is my
site" on more than one occasion.

I think the solution is to licence them the use of the CMS software for a
price and make some money out of it.
If I was getting into that type of business I would be tempted to use an
open source CMS system just to avoid this sort of issue.
We have a website builder system but the customer can export a static html
version of the site if they move host. Its then a dead, non updatable, set
of files but this also gets round the problem.


--
Gordon Hudson || Hostroute.com Ltd
e-mail:ghudson [at] hostroute.net
http://www.hostroute.co.uk/resellers Host 5 web sites for £9 per month
http://www.nameroute.co.uk/ Domain Names with free hosting and email

"Gordon Hudson" <gordon@usenet3.hostroute.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4350fa3c$0$38037$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk.. .
Seems an odd line for Ofcom to take (not the first occasion I've thought
this, especially when I worked for BT!). If my data's so valuable, why give
my only copy to a service provider and then stop paying their bills? I
wonder if the courts would uphold this? A fool and his data are soon
parted....

Your suggestion of a static html version is a good one. Presumably the OP's
CMS system is based around a database; an alternative would be to archive
the contents and provide a copy on demand, or on payment of a fee for that
service. Perhaps, once it's been determined that the account is so late
that at least some elements of the service are to be withdrawn, sending a
tape of the data by registered post would be a good kick in the backside for
the non-payer, and could release the service provider from an obligation to
maintain a copy?



--
####################
## PH, London
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"Philip Herlihy" <foof8501@herlihy.eu.veil.com> wrote in message
news:dir3eq$4pt$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
Indeed.
I could claim that they had the files to start with so they must have
deleted their local copy after uploading.
However, when it gets to dynamic content like bulletin boards we have the
only copy unless they have made backups.
I am personally paranoid about backups.
Our own sites get updated from a local copy here which is backed up.
The remote copy on the server is backed up to an additional drive.
This drive is the backed up daily to another server in Canada (in case
docklands got bombed, I am that paranoid).
At any one time I have four or five backups floatring around.
I wish customers would take a wee bit more responsibility for backups.

I have thought of a simpler solution.
Why not use one of those zip up the web type programs to spider the site and
copy it as static html?

or on payment of a fee for that
This is Ofcom's idea.
However, ion the same ruling they suggested that web hosts should take full
responsibility for any legal action against their customers because the
customer is unlikely to have enough money to pay out in a big court case.
They also suggest that web hosts must not turn off an account without giving
advance notification.
The problem witht hat is we have to turn off people for spamming (sometimes
insecure scripts being exploited) or because they have bad code that is
crashing the server.
The average response time to an email is about two days which is far too
long and a lot of emails never get received anyway so we would need to send
a registered letter while the undesirable activity continued.

I am pleased to say that OFCOM has no jurisdiction over ISP's ion the Isle
of Man or Channel Islands, although it does have jurisdiction for other
things there.


--
Gordon Hudson || Hostroute.com Ltd
e-mail:ghudson [at] hostroute.net
http://www.hostroute.co.uk/resellers Host 5 web sites for £9 per month
http://www.nameroute.co.uk/ Domain Names with free hosting and email

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 14:24:26 +0000 (UTC), Philip Herlihy put finger to
keyboard and typed:

IIRC, the case in question referred to dynamically generated content
that had never been uploaded in the first place - it had been created
on the server (eg, the contents of a web-based bulletin board). It's
quite possible that such data may be valuable but that the owner would
not have a separate copy - especially if the customer is also
explicitly paying the service provider to take regular backups (which
isn't unusual at the professional end of the market).

In such a case, it would be reasonable to take the line that when the
hosting service is terminated, for whatever reason, the hosting
provider is obliged to supply a copy of the data to the customer
before deleting it.

Mark
--
http://www.MineOfUseless.info - everything you never needed to know!
"I'm so tired of acting tough"